Let me finish tonight with this: I just figured this election out.
Let's discount all the stupid stuff. From now 'til Election Day, both guys will make gaffes. By that, I mean they will say things on their minds they quickly will wish they hadn't said. (I know the feeling).
But who are they? That's something we can figure out from some very clear statements they've just made--statements about their values, the way they judge other people, the way they wish to be judged themselves. I'm talking about their accomplishments on this earth and how they value them.
Mitt Romney wants us all to value what he calls "success." Others call it making big money, he calls it "success." It doesn't matter how you make it: you make a boatload of money, you live well. You want the world to look up to you, to, in his words, "congratulate" you. That's his world.
Yesterday at the University of North Carolina, President Obama said that he and his wife Michelle just finished paying off their college loans eight years ago. And, as he said, "And I'm the President of the United States!" He's saying that he's worked hard, done the right things with his life (Harvard Law Review, community work in Chicago, teaching constitutional law). They don't bring big incomes or big houses, but they do do good.
Romney's view, and he's putting it right out there for us, showcasing it now, is not that he committed gaffes when he talked about having a "couple of Cadillacs," or that he hangs out with people who own NASCAR teams, or that he enjoys firing people...that's the way he looks at things: money. Money means success. It means people should look up to you, should "congratulate" you because of the prominence your wealth entitles you to in this "fair" society that he's talking about.
Land developers, strip miners, hedge funders--doesn't matter how you make you make your money, you deserve "congratulations" on top of that money, according to Romney. You deserve to be one of the prominent people, the stand-outs who, let's face it, should be calling the shots. Forget the teachers, the firefighters, the doctors who takes care of low income patients.
Obama's not perfect, but he's got the right values. Those student loans of his say a lot. They say he and Michelle won real success at really good schools because they had the brains and the moxie to get it and, yes, they've given themselves to helping others do the same.
So it's not the gaffes that tell what these two very different men running for president are. As they've both revealed in the last 24 hours, it's the statement their lives have made.
Leave a Comment:
IT will be a curious result of universal suffrage if a President is Elected against the WISH of a clear majority of American citizens.#.The Extreme Republicans have CONSOLED themselves for their compulsory Adoption of a POPULAR parasitic FLIP-FLOPPER.@
The overt cynicism of the smirking Romney statements are most obviously made through the lines in "1776" the musical..."most men who have nothing will protect the possibility of becoming rich rather than face the reality of being poor"
I can't remember a time when the values of two presidential candidates were so starkly different. Romney isn't just pivoting - he's doing clumsy pirouettes. It's demeaning to one who aspires to the highest office in the land and his Etch-A-Sketch moments speak volumes about his doubleminded attitude toward truth. Many Americans aren't paying attention, yet, and, of course, that's precisely what his campaign wants. His staff must be huge. Just keeping up with Romney's positions and walk-backs is a 24/7 job. I guess that's what hiring Ed Gillespie will get ya. Good ole Ed...quite a student of Karl Rove, he is.
Chris has made a profound observation regarding the real essence of the election. I believe in separation of church and state, and confirm no litmus test should be warranted based upon religion. However, discussion of values is most appropriate. As a professor in the state of Utah I learned quickly that the mores of the LDS population are based upon a worship of success. How success is defined is fundamental to the discussion of values. His comments were tactful, just, and worthy of much consideration. I believe he has touched upon the key to "class warfare" in our society-what we value as a democratic republic.
How about how he made the money, and was it could for America, or just himself and friends pockets?
Did he help Economy, if you think McD type paying jobs are good?
Romney is nothing more then Herbert Hoover re-incarnate! Will America really go back to country being run by conservative bat-s**ts?
Quote: OSAMA BIN LADEN Still Dead! Genernal Motors Still ALive!
Thanks for your contributions, Gordon. The nuances of the culture here on Planet Utah are particularly complex. Chris spent some time here in the early 70's working for Frank Moss and Wayne Owens, two pols who avoided the stereotype of "Mormons are invariably Republicans." I'm sure you'll be able to add a bit; as a "lifer" here descended from Mormons, I'm with the late Wallace Stegner who identified the difficulty of writing about the subject because there existed so many nuances that invariably led to innumerable digressions and tangents.
To expand on your "LDS worship success," I would add that it isn't that they aren't compassionate toward the less fortunate (although many aren't; but generalizations are perilous), rather they are extremists at "avoiding failure" (or the appearrance fo failure). So they "elevate" them, even in a culture where the church is the state's largest employer and multi-level marketing operations dot the landscape and separate the Saints from their savings. Too, there's essentially a "royalty" element they bestow on their "favorite sons." Jon Huntsman, Jr. said on Scarborough there was no way he would be nominated in the current political climate here, which is nonsense. There was a very capable and much-loved lady governor, and he simply walked in with his money, church credentials, and good looks and plucked the job away from her. He governed as a moderate, but only by making a "deal with the devil" with the ultra right, and the right is back in power because his lieutenant governor--a global warming denier with no college degree--took over when Huntsman was made ambassador to China.
Mitt Romney is another example of "Mormon royalty," and what we've seen is an individual who will "stand for" whatever he finds convenient at the time. He campaigned on equal rights for gays and pro-choice, but only after informing church leaders in Salt Lake that he needed to adopt those positions to get elected in liberal Massachusetts.
SL Cabbie,
Google Gumby and Wikipedia - take a good look at the picture of Gumby the flexible claymation star - add a little gray
hairclay at the temples. He even has a dog named Nopey who could serve as press agent. (Nopey responds to every question with "nope")This is much better than the Etch-a-sketch thing.
(Oh - I'm working on a theory that both you and Keith are "troll magnets" - something about you makes you irresistible to little trolls. Notice that Mika is gone - was it something I said or did his one month contract expire- still - trolls abhor a vacuum... and I still detect a whiff of troll toot in the air)
Adam_Selene
Mea culpa on the "troll magnet" sort, Adam... Well, sort of... Okay, that's a reasonable "working hypothesis" (theory has a different meaning, honest, although your usage does reflect the "common vernacular").
I am not a troll (/richard nixon voice off). Grandpa Fuzz is, however. Probably just the unpaid variety (fanatics are often the most zealous). Yes, I would be a troll if I were over on FAUX doing the same thing... I'm not inclined to do so, however; the thought of having to regularly check under the hood for bombs or cut break lines keeps me on this side of the "Cyber-DMZ." I confess I once visited a "birther site" and asked an "impertinent question." I managed two posts, received a smackdown from the site proprietor, and was locked out... No thanks... Same thing happens when I post some modest history stuff with local Deseret News.
Magnet is a useful metaphor, but I resist being "made an object" (a small psychological point). My prose definitely is... I don't do any "social media" but you might slip over to "Fok Society" (the old Keith Olbermann fan site that's kind of moribund right now), and I'll offer a bit of analysis and IRL info after you've been "vetted." Feel free to start a rumor I'm really a committee of PhD's who meets regularly at an undisclosed location here along the Wasatch Front.
We shall have to see if rumors of the Ruskie's departure are premature. He or she? To borrow from Richard Pryor, that poster sort of "led with their gonads" (testes or ovaries) when they played that "single digit" sobriety card... To Mikka's credit, Grandpa received an arse-chewing for bringing up long past debaucheries... Knowing what I know about that subject, the "flight or fight" response was either to decide I'm a diabolical liar claiming more than three decades of continuous sobriety or run to a sponsor and confess to some serious fabrications.
Much more interesting is "Cindy" these days. We're offered this "I'm one of Hillary's courtesans" scenario along with a "Mitt is the man" and just yesterday "she" threw out a "Birther" shot... Wanna tackle that analysis?
Sorry - I am not using "troll magnet" to mean a troll who attracts trolls but as a poster who attracts trolls - same as "chick magnet" - well - oh let's just not go there.
Yes - Cindy is on my list of possibles.
Is Cindy filling the vacuum left by mika's departure?
Cindy attempts to associate Obama and the Democrats with:
no leader, worst, golf, food stamps, gas price, waste.
Then tries to sell the idea that the Democratic party would be better off with out Obama - go four years with Romney then elect Hillary - kind of slick in an obvious sort of way.
Remember mika's "somebody should apologize" phrase? Kind of has the same feel as Cindy's "somebody is responsible". Certainly troll like behavior but the number of posts is not high enough to be a "paid" troll. Of course if a troll master had a whole "blunder" of troll sockpuppets and worked them as a portfolio - you could maybe make the numbers necessary. Plain trolls are boring - put paid trolls are mercenaries and deserve loving attention.
As I mentioned before here are the things to look at - posting date and time, number of posts per day, key words and phrases, troll targets (magnets), posting to dead posts, changes in persona. You then look for groupings and patterns.
I'm referring to my project as Beowulf but I need to finish recording mika's work before seriously using it to look at the other little trollskies. It seemed to me that mika's persona started to unravel toward the end before I started in on him. Perhaps the 1 month contract was coming to an end and the quota had already been reached. I thought there were a few flashes of the poster's actual personality there - I'll take another look at it. I used that change in personality:
If you ever miss him, I can tape up my little fingers and do his "#1fox msnbc in toilet" imitation for you. What do you say tovarich ?
Adam_Selene Luna will be free!
As far as "chick magnet" goes, I gave up being a sex symbol when I became a cabdriver...
Keith! Where are you when I need you!
Arrrrggggghhhh!
I'm going to one of the other posts and place a "troll wanted - no experience required - ask for SL Cabbie" ad.
Seriously Cabbie - come over to Maddow - better class of trolls for you to play with - of course no trolls are necessary in This Week in God. Think I will run over there and tell everyone that I am a closet Druid.
Adam_Selene
How to Ignore NewsVine’s Nations update and still find your friends, view your history, their histories, find inner tranquility, and promote lasting world peace.
1. Go to MSNBC and login
2. Click on your Icon at the top Right of screen
3. [My Column ][Account Settings] (From MSNBC home page)
a. My Column – at the top of the screen to the right of your avatar and below your screen name you will find a small green square icon “View Author Profile” – click on this icon.
b. View Author Profile - you will find your Comment History and a list of your Nations.
c. In MSNBC article comments, you may wish to look at another author’s Comment History before you call them a troll. Follow the same process – click on their avatar or screen name and you will reach their column. Click on the small green “View Author Profile” – works the same as 3. (a) and section 3. (b)
4. [My Column ][Account Settings] (From MSNBC home page)
a. Account Settings – your existing Friends will be found on this screen – left side, 6th down. Clicking on Friends will take you to their Avatars and so to their columns.
5. Starting from your Column
a. My Column – at the top of the screen to the right of your avatar and below your screen name you will find a small green square icon “View Author Profile” – click on this icon.
b. View Author Profile - you will find your Comment History and a list of your Nations.
c. To find Friends - at the top of the page, click on the green “gear” icon (Edit Settings) to the right of your screen name. The new screen will display 3 tabs [ACCOUNT SETTINGS] [SUBSCRIPTIONS] [NEWSVINE.COM]. Select [NEWSVINE.COM]. Your existing Friends will be found on this screen – left side, 6th down. Clicking on Friends will take you to their Avatars and so to their columns. (Note you must be logged in to see the “gear” and thus your Friends.)
Since the “Friends” option is no longer available and the existing Friends display may not always be supported, you might want to bookmark their Comment History pages into a special Bookmark folder on your browser. The same approach could be used to keep track of new posters you want to monitor there by decentralizing “Friends”.
Values? Romney's "success" was based on making the most money for his business interest and his partner's. It did not matter at what cost..... jobs, towns, people, small businesses, whatever it took to make the most money. Are those the values we would like in our President? I remember his decision to let the auto industry go under........
Romney is the man.
Hey if Romney flips flops on one of his flip flops, 1st 1, 2nd 2, 3rd 1, I guess he is back where he started, therefore, he technically is not a flip flopper anymore because he is now back to starting position,
Is this how he is going to run to center?
Trickle-Up Economics. Middle class income stays even over the last decade and millionaires become billionaires. Anybody know why ex-middle class americans don't have savings any more, our gone and disappeared savings turned the rich from millionaires to billionaires that is where it is at and that wasn't enough last "raid the middle class before we get out of office", Bush and his rich cloonies did was take our homes and equity.
I agree with Chris completely. I once had the privilege of sharing dinner at a function, long ago, with the current Vice President, Joe Biden and he made the comment that most succinctly describes the real value of a person. His comment was that what we accumulate is irrelevant, we are defined on both sides of the grave by what we do for others. It seems that we have a segment of our society which the Republican Party has become part of, whose prerequisites are greed and cruelty to others in order to accumulate more for oneself. This is a shameful behavior that will bring about their demise. However they do deserve their fate and I have no empathy for them. They are the victims of their own greed and cruelty. As the one whose teachings they tout so loudly, but follow not at all, Jesus Christ, said, I shake the dust of my feet on their doorstep for their existence has no value.