Let me finish with the real-life consequence of this bad voter photo law in Pennsylvania.
My high school English teacher, Gerald Tremblay, has been caring for his wife these recent years. She suffered a serious stroke and has been unable to get out and about. She can no longer drive a car and therefore has no driver's license. Unable to travel, she has no up-to-date passport.
But she is fully alert and very much alive intellectually. Thanks to her husband, she keeps up with the news. He holds the newspapers up for her to read, and she's very eager to vote this year.
Therein lies the problem, this "new" problem. The new Pennsylvania law, pushed through by Republicans in the legislature, requires that to get an absentee ballot which is needed in this case, you need to produce a government-issued photo ID.
Think about the obstacles this presents here. Mr. Tremblay would have to take his wife to the PennDot headquarters—his wife being a serious stroke victim—simply to get the ID card that the new law now requires.
Now we have no idea if this is the kind of person the GOP lawmakers in Harrisburg were out to keep from voting. What we do know is the predicament they've created for her, a consequence of their slick move to, in the words of the top Republican in the Pennsylvania legislature, deliver the commonwealth's electoral votes to Romney.
I would think this case is a good example of why justice requires action by the courts to stop this unfair new law from taking effect barely a month from now.
What I didn't say is that Gerald Tremblay is the greatest teacher I ever had, anyone ever had. If he's as good a caregiver as he was a teacher, God's in his heaven, all's right with the world.
But this law needs to be changed now so that his wife can cast her ballot like every other registered Pennsylvania voter.
Leave a Comment:
Have your news crew follow an ambulance to pick-up your teachers wife, loading her into the ambulance, transporting her to get her photo ID, show ambulance techs positioning her so the camera can photograph her.
yeah cause that situation happens all the time, F-ing please. I was at a recycling plant today and they required valid ID to sell scrap metal. so you really think there's no need for valid ID to VOTE? Even the Dems required ID to enter their own convention, if you cant get an ID, i don't want you voting, no matter who youre voting for. Dem or Rep or whoever... too dumb to get an Id, too dumb to vote, F-off
You're definitely too dumb to vote. It's all about the specific kind of the ID. Most people already have ID its just not good enough for the Republican's like you. For example Military ID isn't good enough.
That's why you guys will lose this election and hopefully lose power for the next three decades or so.
There is NO need for voter ID's . There is no problem with voter fraud. It is a lie. This didn't seem to be a problem during the 2010 election, when the Republicans won. And why are they implementing these laws so close to election day? They have said outright that these laws will prevent Obama voters from voting.
They are implementing these laws because they feel, since they cannot appeal to these voters, they must not be worthy of the vote. The question I have is this: how does the GOP EVER expect to recruit any of these people? Republicans will get fewer and fewer until they all die off. I hope they do not do too much damage along the way.
What do you have against veterans and active duty troops stationed overseas voting?
All veterans should have and do have the right to vote, except the Republican voter ID laws have rendered our military ID's invalid because they like many other government ID's do not have expiration dates on them. That's why these Republican voter ID laws are really voter suppression laws.
Vote the Republican's out. Vote straight Democrat 2012.
Photo id is a seque into voter disenfranchisement. Republicans know the numbers of people released/hampered/defaulting to "non-compliant" status will dramatically increase. It is a calculation on the part of Republican Governors and the RNC. They want to test how much people want to vote for Obama!
This is what republicans do not take into account: Republicans voters are going to be disenfranchised too--and they have no one, no forum, to grieve to abou it, but they are out there in large numbers too. The thinking is, this action is for their own good (republicans who cannot meet the new standard).
The founding fathers explicitly intended for the right to vote not to be "infringed". In the spirit of the law, it means if you can discern who is voting once-and only one in an election, then the vote has not been hampered.
For example, Mrs. Upton (fictional) has a driver's license with her photo expired. Mrs. Upton no longer drives. Her "photo id" allows her services in every conceivable area of her life unrestricted. Then, some state official says to vote in 2012 elections you need a photo id-current:
Do you think Mrs. Upton will be discouraged to vote? Is the process a poll tax, or building to a poll tax?
Additionally, now Mrs Upton will need a birth certificate with a raised seal (no photo copy) to obtain that ID. These can only be obtained, in person in the state of your birth since states only hand out photo copies of birth certificates at birth and will only mail out photocopies. However since Mrs. Upton is married, the name on her birth certificate is Ms. Smith (her maiden or birth name, not her married name Upton). Now she has to get an attorney to prove she is the same person and get her new drivers license.
That will cost Mrs Upton a fortune to vote.
Our lady Mrs. Upton's right to vote is being infringed on indeed. In order to vote in any election, she will cyclically have to pass impediments decided by a State.
Delphinium wrote: "There is NO need for voter ID's . There is no problem with voter fraud. It is a lie."
Delphinium...repeating a lie over and over DOES NOT make it a fact. Fraud is a problem, both REAL and PERCEIVED. I had a family member who proudly bragged about fixing elections in Northern Jersey in the 1960s. His rationale when I expressed outrage? "Calm down Steve. Both sides did it. We were just better at it."
From a local paper..."As Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens wrote in a 2008 opinion upholding a strict Indiana voter-ID law designed to combat fraud: "Unfortunately, the United States has a long history of voter fraud that has been documented by historians and journalists," Although generally associated with the more liberal wing of the court, Justice Stevens has had first-hand experience with voter fraud while serving on various reform commissions in Chicago."
Quick note to my buddy Sed (and no, that wasn't sarcasm, I do enjoy the back and forth!)...if I read you correctly, you do seem to be okay with some ID at the polls, correct? Perhaps it's just a matter of compromise here between us. As I mentioned in earlier posts, in MD, I go to the polls, state my name and address and they give me a ballot. And, as I mentioned, Paris Glendenning won in the 1990s with an 18% approval rating. His opponent was pretty strong as well. Nobody in their right minds think he won legitimately. Would you agree with me (this would be a first), that no identification whatsoever is ludicrous?
As an aside...sorry I haven't been around lately, I haven't been ducking you guys...I posted on one of the archived thread that my wife and I were trying to save a neighbor's cat for several days (she has a colony of foster cats and semi-ferals)...giving it fluid, feeding with a syringe and eye dropper. It died yesterday after all of that. Kind of depressed/tired and need a break from the arguing. Hope you all are doing well. Will be back after some rest.
Take care...Steve
Climbbutrm my hasty thoughts (working). No one is supporting no id at all. We are questioning why what has been used before is not longer good for today. The Opinion given by Justice Kennedy providing the quote you listed above is actually where Stevens is quoting the "Carter-Baker Report" a commission on Federal Election Reform to which two of their findings were that Congress mandated two actions, (1) state restriction on purging names of voters (2) that states start new computerized state-wide lists.
These Congressional acts are causing states' contrarian conflict in record housekeeping. Namely, dead peoples' names are still on the voting rolls. Go figure.
Anyways, long story short: Indiana has never reported voter fraud occurring in its history (kind of goes to 'Dell's' point above). And those occurring incidents in other states occurred in (1) far-flung 1920's American histor. (2) A 2003 Chicago incident involving not in-person voting but absentee ballots.
Let's move the conversation forward. People are already using forms of "id". This idea that a citizen should have to directly purchase a government photo id for the purpose of voting per se, is abhorrent. Congress should administer suitable laws to state about "record-keeping and computerization of lists" and leave the citizenry out of their mess. My "snap" opinion. (Got to run.)
Steve is immune to fact. He had a relative ( a single guy out of millions) who committed voter fraud 50 years ago. 50 years ago LSD was legal. Therefore we have a massive voter fraud problem and a massive LSD problem today. This is how conservatives think. I mean this is how conservatives DON'T think.
Bush spent millions of our dollars and wasted five years of our federal judges time investigating voter fraud just a few years back across the whole of our country. Bush and Karl Rove threatened those self same judges with their jobs, that is they told them they would be fired if they couldn't find voter fraud. Three judges took Bush and Rove to task, which was amazing 'cause they were Republican, but they along with the other judges found zero evidence of voter fraud anywhere.
So you can believe your less than honest buddies at Fox or on right wing radio who just talk and whine or you can use you head and believe actual federal officials who investigated it for 5 full years at the cost of millions of dollars.
Be smart for once Steve. Use that grey stuff between your ears.
Sed wrote: "He had a relative ( a single guy out of millions) who committed voter fraud 50 years ago."
Your 50 year comment is very valid Sed and I have to admit, I don't believe (again, opinion) that the unions have quite the strength they had in those days.
As far as "a single guy out of millions"...he was one person that I actually knew, so that was a relatively small universe I'd say. I don't know millions of people (you might, but I don't!) And, I clearly did NOT articulate what was perpetrated. It was a very coordinated, orchestrated effort by a handful of union people that USED many people. Again, like you said....50 years ago...union thugs...back in the day as they say. One other point...these were all "local" elections, which would probably be easier to effect a change in outcome as the electorate is smaller. That said, why leave that door open again?
Climbbutrm. O.M.G. It looks like poor Mrs. Upton will get to vote in the elections without a hassle by those republican BIG bosses. Unfortunately, for the bosses, she's pissed!
CAUTION: PA REPUBLICAN BACKLASH IMMINENT.
You're right Steve. The only organized voter fraud efforts we've seen in the last few decades have been this same exact paid Republican group that got in Florida last week.
They got caught doing the same thing for Bush in 2004 but Bush let them off the hook back then. Let's hope Obama gets elected so they actually go to jail this time, right? I mean you do want to see these fraudsters punished right?
Yep. Time for some repercussions and some sentencing. That man has done harm to the American people, voters' rights and infringements, and indirectly to me personally. I want to see the Justice Department get outfront on this one NOW!
This is what has made so many people angry at this time of 'financialization' of the economy that Bain helped pioneer, evidently: all it takes is the ethics of a sneak thief and a shark and you can go after the hard earned money of a company simply by juggling numbers, fiddling around with their stock prices, etc. Alongside people who have legitimately made a lot of money by making things people need, and which contribute both to our economy and our well being (think Elon Musk and his solar charging stations for electric cars) these guys look like the crooks they are: making money from someone else's money.
Thank you for putting a face and telling a story about real life people, good citizens, who are caught in the grip of government nonsense that take away from them the right to vote when so many in the past have even given up their lives so that voting is for all people.
Noting the rude and crude post above, we are trying not to sell our democracy like so much scrap metal. I think the point is missed concerning a "valid" ID versus an impediment of having a regulated state sponsored last minute for all intent and purpose inflicted roadblock on people who have been great citizens serving the public good.
I certainly hope you ban this staugyish with what is the most totally vile ignorant insulting comment. Obviously this person did not have a great English teacher or home training either.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Chris, for keeping this issue out in the forefront. It's huge and extremely important. If Republicans are able to fix the vote, none of the issues actually matter. Nor does being an American.
I watch (and Love) your show daily but not everyone watches. We need to find a way to get this story out to all peoples and let them know what we are really facing with these new laws. It is not just happening in PA, it is happening thru out the country. I do not care if you are Rep or DEM (like me), these are our rights and they need not be taken lightly. If they can get the Refs back for the NFL then we should be able to get the word out to the peoples to push back on these laws.
Thank you for this story, Chris. My mother also had a stroke last year. Luckily lives in New York; a state doesn't have these fascistic voting laws.
This is what i like about hardball. THIS is a fallout that has not been truely worked out by the repubs. With most of our states ran by the repubs / tea party crowd. They are going crazy coming up with ways to stop the president from getting re-elected. They could care less who gets hurt in the process. Haven`t you guys been paying attention how they keep wasington in a flux. Now you talking about unconstitutional ,,,,, but not a word by the supreme court on this , but they tried to block our health-care program. GUYS we are seeing where this could easily lead our GOVT. OUR COUNTRY.
I have to say that what i`m smelling is not a pleasant smell here. This reeks of past injustices against the people ,the voters. This concerns me in a big way.
Abraham Lincoln SAW something deep in his HEART and HATED it,sitting in his kitchen table,that"SLAVERY"was"A FIXED"by"WHITE PEOPLE"for"WHITE PEOPLE"ONLY.@
I'm a former US Marine who quit driving on 9/11. But for 3 exceptions many years ago, I haven't been behind the wheel of a vehicle since. When my license expired a few years back, I saw no need to visit the bright, smiling faces at the DMV for a thing i'd never use, so I didn't. Now, these kinds of superfluous and unnecessary ID laws (with their accompanying racist overtones) are about to deny a MARINE the right to vote in my own country-to solve a problem that does NOT EXIST by any stretch of the imagination. Semper Fi.
And who do you trust to cast the ballots of stroke victims who maybe cannot even go through the process themselves? There have been numerous stories of nursing care facilities helping the aged cast votes and helping them cast them for certain candidates. And we don't need protection from this type of fraud?
My mother had a stroke and when she went to vote, I was the one who could "help" her or someone else at the poll. Don't assume because one has had a stroke that one is in a nursing home.
This going through the nursing home and finding people with dementia and voting for them should be monitored by family members. As far as I know, people "selling" things in a nursing home are not allowed. Privacy of the residents is protected, first you have to sign in plus your "business" there. So who exactly is doing this? Who is able to do it in 2012?
Let's get real, how is it possible to fuction in society without ID? You can't rent a home, a car, open a bank account. You need ID to go to school, if your old enough to vote. How do you have the water and electric power turned on? Apply for any social service program, buy cigarettes, buy alcohol, get a plane ticket, a marriage license, get any type of credit, or even apply for a J-O-B. Really Chris, not a word from you on how to make sure our troops votes get counted, is that not just as important to protect? Two sides to every story. When the DOJ wants to stop States from purging the voting rolls of felons and the dead, maybe we should ask why? Voter fraud is real and voting should be protected, even at the cost of a little inconvience. Help someone get an ID, but don't cry me a river about how hard it is to get an ID. Do you think the "lady" who received the "free" cell phone (that Obama gave her) didn't have to show ID? This debate isn't about ID's at all and has zero to do about protecting my vote. It is couched in mock concern for the very few who have seemingly no ability at all to navigate our social and economic structure, even with all the government supported programs. It is a wonder how they can cry foul and still be believed!
Why aren't military and student ID's good enough?
They aren't valid under the new laws because they don't have expiration dates on them. The laws have been enacted very specifically to only include a certain type of ID and to obtain that ID one has to obtain very specific documents that may be cost prohibitive or close to impossible for many to obtain because they have to travel long distances to get them. Some states don't even provide these necessary documents required by these laws (like birth certificates with raised seals), anymore.
Just1thing is a moron. Voter fraud is not real. The Bush administration had all his federal judges spend five full years investigating voter fraud and they spent millions of tax payer dollars doing so and found zero proof anywhere of voter fraud.
Further there is no effort to suppress military votes other than the Republican voter ID suppression effort.
If in fact, one want everyone to have ID's than military, government, student ID's should all be acceptable. The birth certificates everyone is issued by their states should be acceptable proof instead of requiring special birth certificates that people have to get from the state capital, where they were born, in person (if they're even available) at a price with a raised seal.
Further since these legal requirements are estimated to take a minimum of two years to fulfill they should not be required to take effect for two years not one month.
It is a plot by republicans to depress the voter pool.
Sed, you may have hit on something interesting. Government IDs are recognized in every state as a form of ID. Isn't that part and parcel of the 'full faith' clause of the Constitution?
Also, could the President by an order establish all government Ids as sufficient for voting purposes?
““The Texas AG has spent considerable time defending the voter ID law here.
According to the Texas Secretary of State’s office, since 2004 there have been 39,072,039 ballots cast in major elections in Texas.
The total number of cases on the AG’s own list was 62 since 2002. If you assume that all 62 of the AG’s cases are valid, the percentage of fraud by comparison is .0001 percent.
In the AG’s cases, as many as 40 involved mail ballots, and that is something that the voter ID law would not prevent."
http://www.khou.com/home/Political-analyst-Texas-voter-ID-fraud-is-not-rampant-162147655.html”””
One of America's great liberties is freedom of speech; we do not suppress Americans from speeking, we should not suppress Americans from another great liberty:the right to vote. Voter suppression needs more national news coverage and further discussion on Hardball, The Ed Show, The Last Word, and The Rachel Maddow Show. Also, this would make a good question for the first presidential debate.
What bothers me about this false polling talk: are the Republicans rigging the vote and this talk about "real polls" is a precursor to justifying the results?
haven't they already had voter fraud? I don't see the big deal about showing an ID. It means that both sides will have to abide by the election results. I would rather have 100 percent legal voters, and I don't see any other way of accomplishing it.
No. Pay attention. The percentage of voter Fraud is .00001%. These laws will disenfranchise 10%.
Thats preventing 1,000,000 people voting for every 0 people that cheat.
Nonsense Sed.....fraud is almost impossible to find/detect. Your stats (which are fictitious anyway) would be based upon detected fraud.
The main reason Matthews keeps posting on this subject is very transparent: To anger/incite/fire up a part oft he electorate that will buy into this nonsensical narrative. It's pretty despicable. In Matthews' defense (because as you know, I always TRY to be fair, even if I often FAIL!!)....the anecdote he cites is very valid, albeit rather flukey. Regardless how flukey it is, I think every legal voter needs to be allowed to vote, so even these onsies and two-sies need to be accommodated by the state of PA. They would occur in such small amounts, that should be pretty easy. Take care! Steve
Specious argument. We can't find fraud but we know it exists. Is this your definition of science?
Your solution is in one state alone is to stop 1,000,000 registered voters from actually voting even though after years of investigating they have found zero cases of actual voter fraud. Not one single case in ten years.
That sounds like one party preventing American democracy to me.
For a party that doesn't believe in evolution, science, Climate Change, alternate energy education etc., ad nauseam, I find it convenient that you do believe in voter fraud. Ha Ha Ha! Everything is about blind faith nothing is about fact with you guys.
O.M.Goodness! (repost)
The only sound I hear is crickets. No Mitt Romney hastening to "instant press availability", to criticize and denouncing Sproul for disenfranchising the other 47 percent, and independents.
Talk about a Loser. :-(disturbing.
This also happened with the same guy during the Bush administration. Like now they launched an investigation that will not conclude until after the election. In the case of the Bush Administration Bush simply dismissed the charges against Sproul and the RNC.
Another reason why Obama should win.
This is nothing but typical Obama propaganda strictly to avoid the real issues, Failure with domestic policies, failure with foreign policies, failure with employment, failure with national debt--- I give up, too many failures.
magic4u, don't forget failure to get your party to stop holding men, women, and children hostage to a rear-view mirro looking republican/tea party code of conduct (revolution garb, REALLY?).
If and when republicans lose it will not be to President Obama, per se. The republican party should lose because it turns a deaf ear to the voices of today's Americans who are ready to go forward into its unknown future, fearlessly.
Republicans, have a vision of "glory days". Days which were never glorious for all Americans. Its time. Time to put the past behind us and move on into our future.
magic4u, the FUTURE is calling "us".
Magic has a failure with facts, a failure with memory and a failure to accept reality.
Republican Party, "Back To The Future" ~ is only a movie.
An elderly person receiving Social Security and Medicare had to prove their identity to get these benefits. The ss card, medicare card and proof of residency should be enough for them to get the necessary ID. They are intentionally putting up road blocks to discourage these individuals.
Then you have ID's with no expiration date. If voter fraud were the issue an expiration date would not be needed. The picture ID with their name on it shows who they are. Stopping voter fraud is not the goal, voter suppression is the real goal.
Heard your Friday rant about voting. Didn't hear anything about America's voters losing their right to vote. Shame on you. No public scrutiny of our elections deserves more, don't you think?
Calbab wrote...."No one is supporting no id at all."
Hmmm...I'd love to hear Sed say that. I think my "view" of the PA debate is skewed because of current rules in MD and many other places. You can walk in, state a name and address and you get a ballot. It's obscene. I didn't realize that PA did have some form of ID. I think we could (and when I say "we", I mean you and I because Sed lives in this fantasy where there are no nefarious individuals trying to rig elections). My argument stands however that anyone supports NO ID is concerned that they will lose the ability to commit fraud.
Calbab...you make a valid argument. But when Sed says:
"People are already using forms of "id". This idea that a citizen should have to directly purchase a government photo id for the purpose of voting per se, is abhorrent" he's doing what the Left loves to do. Create a completely non-existent fight. I don't know anyone who wants people, especially those without the means, to PURCHASE IDs...if they aren't made readily available, that's a serious problem (hence Texas rightfully getting shot down).
As for "people are already using forms of IDs, clearly not here in MD...or DC. Did you see the video of the young guy who walked into Eric Holder's precinct and gt his ballot during the primary season? It's a joke. Do you think these strong Dem voting districts would EVER want to give up that edge? I need to check out a map to see where "No ID whatsoever" is still allowed...surely it's not just these two locales.
Hey! Who says "Dems" are the only voters bothered by what the republican fearless leaders are up to? I have a feeling that beacoup (that's french) of your republican voter participants are pissed at the "BIG" bosses for dragging them out to the DMVs of America too.
For some reason, you are mixing Sed's and my comments into a goulash and coming up in trouble....(me standing back. Climbutrm, it is going to suck to be you in "5", "4", "3", oh-oh,....)
Hooray for PA! The judge ruled in favor of taxation with representation!
I'm sorry Steve that you and your party have lost yet another one of your un-American attempts to roll back our laws to the 16th century.
Now you can go back to concentrating on forcing women to getting back alley abortions, keeping LGBT, African Americans, Latinos and women from getting equal rights, keeping poor children from getting food, forcing the poor and middle class to pay a higher percentage of tax than the obscenely rich and the richest corporations in the world, keeping the working poor and middle class from having health care or pensions, keeping our infrastructure in ruins and our schools inferior to the rest of the world etc. because you believe America the richest nation in the world should be inferior in every way other than our military to every other nation.
That's the Republican way.
Vote straight Democrat 2012! GObama!
Unless I counted incorrectly..there are 18 states (including DC) that require no identification whatsoever to vote. Every other state requires or "requests" some form of ID. Interesting.
It's 2012 and there are that many jurisdictions requiring nothing....wow....where's that listing of dead voters still on the rolls and their last known address? This is sickening. I wonder which party runs those states?
Heard the judge in PA is holding up the voter ID law there...my question to the gang here is...did they really have previous ID requirements in PA because according to this map, they have none (it is just Wikipedia, could be out of date):
First of all DC is not a State. Secondly I just went on their website and they DO issue a voter ID card.
Care to try again?
One: 'lists of voters' is a Congressionally mandated problem discussed above--not "dem" or "repub" state MATTER, per se.
Two: Whatever PA had before this current court brouhaha must have worked like a charm, because your own recommended "read" of SCOTUS 2008 PA Voter ID states that PA has no-none-zero incidents of voter fraud in the state's history. (See. page 11).
Three: Take Ann Romney's advice and "Stop it."
__________________________________________________
My new sign:
REPUBLICAN BOSSES: Stop Disenfranchising Republican Voters in 2012!
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Zinger of the Day. Nathan Sproul, Arizona's own Republican voter trickster/fraudster, goes national
Going to watch The Mentalist on tape....you guys have your hands full tomorrow trying to minimize Obama's obscene racist rant in '07....will make some great campaign ads. What a phony. Good luck. The party is over folks. How will you spin it? It was racist to show his racist rant? G'night.
Ha Ha Ha! You believe anything! You really are the most gullible fool I've ever met. Ha Ha Ha!
Oh wait this compares to all the racists rants Bush made whenever he spoke because he was the only BUSH with a Texan accent! Ha Ha Ha! How the hell did that happen? That Southern racist! Ha Ha Ha! All the other Bush family members were from the North East but somehow 'W' came from Texas with a Texas accent! Ha Ha Haaaaa!
Climbbuthrm, is heaping a red herring on the campaign trail. How many voters you expect to take your "bait"?
Let me get this straight, Obama is reading his audio book n 2007 (aloud, duh! (If that's his voice and not the "second")) and you think that he will say something that you can "discover" as new in 2012. That's what your team is going with?
My new sign:
CLIMBBUTRM DIVIDES AMERICA. ROMNEY DESPERATE FOR VOTES.
By the way Climbbutrm, how about that Nathan Sproul, Arizona's own Republican voter trickster/fraudster, goes national ? What a guy, huh?
Calbab..it's a blue herring, not red!
Had to search both Nathan Sproul and "accent" as I didn't know where you guys were going. I didn't see/hear Obama so didn't understand your comments....I read the transcript, so didn't pick up any inflection. Why would his "accent" be racist? You lost me. I was talking purely content, which was ridiculous.
As for Sproul...I saw "allegations" and "alleged" in the article in LA Times. If they are true, go to JAIL...do not pass go...do not collect $200! That said, he was never charged with anything. But again, it goes back to some of my earlier posts on fraud....whether REAL or PERCEIVED...eliminate both and trust goes skyward. Generally in the world of ethics, they often talk about "perception" and "appearances of improprieties" right alongside actual ethics violations. It's important to eliminate both to nurture that level of trust.
Thanks for the flurry of notes dudes...Calbab, yeah, I'm guilty of dividing the electorate. But unlike the current prez who is trying to divide EVERYONE...young vs. old...black vs. white....hispanic vs. white....poor vs rich...victims vs the oppressors..hell, he'd go "parent vs. child" if he could find a way.
I'm going for "self victimization/dependent" vs. "personally responsible/independent". And my hope is to grow the former into the latter. All the best. Still think I've seen a lot of common ground here but it's obviously more fun to focus on the stuff we disagree on...especially for Sed! Sed...I'd hurl insults back at you bro, but I just can't match the incivility of the Left. Keep 'em coming. Later!
Wrong again Steve.
Sproul was caught doing the same thing (registering Dems and shredding their registrations so they couldn't vote on election day) in 2004 for Bush. Like now an investigation was launched. Like now the investigation will not conclude until after the election.
In 2004, Bush won. Even though Sproul was found guilty in 2004 of massive election fraud the Bush Administration decided not to prosecute. Gee why do you think that was? Sproul changed his name since everyone knew he was a guilty scumbag and continued his dirty political practice.
Now the GOP has hired him to do it again. Since everyone knew who he was they caught him again. They are investigating him again. If Mitt wins what do you think will happen...AGAIN?
Climbbuthrm. You are just too too much. I said nothing about accents (even when I mentioned and I quote "read aloud". You are mixing and meshing again. Let me help you...I am that one with the black nose and furry bottom (see picture top left). Get it?
As to your Obama rants 2007, check under HANNITY. Sean Hannity hates Obama more than the reverse. Moreover , he has made a hefty sum being FOX News outspoken conscience vehicle. That foolish man will say anything, at anytime, about anyone, that FOX News tells him to. Hannity, the franchise player.
It may be the time has come to hit corporate Murdoch right between his media empire. Dare I say it? Hell yeah. Its time to boycott FOX ENTERTAINMENT (great as it is. I love fox shows/movies). Enough is enough however.
My new sign:
________________________________________
BOYCOTT FOX ENTERTAINMENT. WITHDRAWALS SYMPTOMS PERMITTED. TIME TO GET RID OF THE FOX NEWS BRAND. BOYCOTT! FOX ENTERTAINMENT NOW!
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You don't broad brush everyone for the actual crimes of others. Else, I would be in jail for my perceptions since responding to Leo months ago. HA! Sproul and his republican co-horts have cheated the American system, threw votes into chaos for which no voter knows for sure and cheated me, indirectly. For that I say the RNC and Sprouls' co-horts should get a CLASS-ACTION SUIT FILED IN COURT AGAINST THEM ON BEHALF OF THE AMERICAN VOTER. Additionally, criminal charges (throw the damn book at him!)
President Obama dividing the country, cut it out Climbbutrm. You are smarter than that, and I hope, no I want you to know I am too. (*wink.)